Summary of Meeting 21

  • DHH: Good morning, everyone. Okay. So. it's winter again hey. The next day or two anyway. So any thoughts about our speaker last week.
  • S01: That was great I had no idea that organization even existed, so that was good, you know.
  • DHH: Usually it's something I mentioned everybody that longest continuously department in Canada. there's some question about what's. So accreditation as a department. is one thing and then accreditation of yourselves as. Computer professionals is another thing. Here, let me. Do something on the web. For today's meeting I got the responses. together here. So I read on this a little bit so. This is. These are the responses. And I tried to. Identifying information. A couple of people who first identifying information in each time. So I. Remove. This is going to be on the public website. And then I thought, because we're limited to 100 words. So I have the original data. The identified. And i'm just for the display i'm putting it in words that we talked about. So in the summary of the meeting from last week. The transcription the audio. So our speaker. I think appears as. one. See. well. Yes. Okay, if I wasn't sharing my screen so that. it's a little bit less informative isn't it sorry about that. Okay, so let me check out see. here. Okay, so. David and then. The responses to meetings. Ideally I would like to just have it as a have an opening time that the the forums don't have an open time. So I will endeavor to. Ask the questions, no more timely fashion. I think ultimately i've chosen the wrong instrument to. For these responses. Online text. text. Alright, so very popular in the chat today, but nobody wants to. Use the microphone. The chat window here a little bit. that's do today. was extended a week exactly. So if you submitted on Thursday, then it's a 10%. penalty. Okay, so. Let me take care. Okay, so here's the password. In the chat and on screen. So the idea of the assignment about the empathy map is to. have some empathy for. The process of doing the onboarding. For proctor track. So we're not going to be using it for our exam. Have a discussion about. The practice test as well. Okay, so a couple of polls here for based on last meeting. So the first one is about certification. So certification, important to you, yes, no, or only if it's required for employment. So watch that. give it a couple of minutes for that. responding. winning. answer is only if required for employment. will explore that a little bit. Here today in. breakout rooms. Another guest. In class so i've got a Pole, for that so. Yes or no for. First, is no not another guest in class, yes, from an employer perspective, yes, from a recruiting perspective and, yes, for another perspective. give people a little more time to reply to that current poll. Alright, so. Nine people voted for not another guest. 30 so the most popular responses, yes, from an employer perspective. closely by yes from a recruiting perspective. And then, yes to another. 20%. So i'm going to type in a question to the chat to we can reply to you. Or we can even discuss using the microphones. Okay, so question what is. Driving you'd like to see. That relates to the pole have. Another guest in class. So pull it i'm still sharing it should be visible on your screen says another guest in class question mark no yes, an employer yes recruiter yes either. So. But what's. So i'm particularly interested in the people who said yes other. As a way to. Okay. Okay. Okay, so please don't send me direct messages. Okay, so let me talk about Philips comment. comment is. Definitely out of the scope. of our class but. I think it professionalism as a discussion is. This is the scope of the class. and I think there is some questions that Thomas has left open about. What, how do we decide what are it professional jobs. So let me ask a quick question about the exam the empathy map assignment. Project deliverable. Stop reading. Well, focus on typing a question. So the question for the breakout room is Australia and island. Just kidding. mom is from saskatchewan I believe. The kind of connection that. is in practice. So is it possible to act professionally without certification if so. supplement here's the tips ethics page. The question clear enough i'll make it i'll send you off to breakout rooms. Now. we'll See you in 10 minutes, and you can ask for help, if you want. Okay, so we're back. size of breakout room much better today. Okay, so. We have three or four people talking. When there's 10 or 11 people in the room, then that's better than. Having. One person talking when it's four or five people in the room. So anyone want to share what the discussion was about and I don't want to hear anything about. Australia, being an island.
  • S02: Well, I in our group. We talked a lot about the, the number of options out there that there's a lot of paths to demonstrating your skill set and your knowledge, including certifications kits and otherwise and. undergraduate degrees, we talked about the fact that none of these things is by itself, necessary and that it's kind of attractive to to have a lot of paths to demonstrating that you're a professional but. We also talked about the limitations of organizations like kits and their ethical certifications in the sense that. it's almost impossible to get one industry wide standard in one industry wide organization that certifies all computing professionals by just by nature of how huge the field is there's. going to be a lot of smaller organizations like caps that have a smaller jurisdiction and we sort of have this big jumbled puzzle of ethical frameworks, if that makes any sense I. think my colleagues expressed it much better than i'm explaining it.
  • DHH: Oh, that sounds good. i'm not sure that there are too many. Professional designations in Canada, I mean if you do if you're in. Here in the software systems engineering program, then you get a different there's a different path, but there's also a certification. A professional certification. But, in general, though the. The computing field is. Not like medicine rainy or or the. Or the Bar Association for lawyers, where you need to be a member. Of the professional group in order to. be certified to practice. In a jurisdiction. Because I think competing as much more results oriented isn't that. You can write code. And you're willing to. Work on some projects, then. OK. So the benefit. Of a membership in a professional societies more than just the certification. I would say. So you work defines you. And also, maybe your. you're also defined by the company you keep. So if you're. On your own and not belong to a group. You don't benefit from the. From the. status of the group. anyone else, like to share a comment about this.
  • S03: Actually, I was wondering if people lose their certifications if they are unethical.
  • DHH: If the people who are the certifications still might still act unethically.
  • S03: yeah. Well, I think that's.
  • S04: good morning
  • S05: Good Morning!
  • S06: I hate winter
  • S05: You never know when it flips around
  • S07: its so drastic! +16 this friday
  • S08: Hey professor, is there any way that you could open up the class response forum earlier after each class? I completed my response on Thursday and it wasn't available until Monday at noon. I even checked monday morning. As a result, I didn't get the mark for my effort, so I would appreciate an earlier forum opening time. Thanks!
  • S09: sorry what are we talking about?
  • S10: I mean id be more interested to hear about what people who hire think. I know people who always got a job without cips
  • S11: ^ David… I get more and more frustrated with this each class :(
  • S07: Professor I sent you my 20th meeting response on your email.
  • S12: what is that map assignment?
  • S07: 3 pages-ish of using proctortrack and what you think, feel, say and do. Also how to improve proctortrack from your experiance
  • S05: Is the prof sharing his screen?
  • S13: nope
  • S14: Is it possible to get a little more time for the maps assignment, unsure if anyone else feels the same but I realised this was due this week during the weekend and havn't had much time to figure out proctortrack. Unless its easier than I think?
  • S15: yes please
  • S16: Yes Please
  • S17: yes please
  • S18: is there an attendance code?
  • S15: An extension will be helpful
  • S19: yes please
  • S20: I think it was already extended almost a week
  • S14: not yet mario
  • S21: can we submit it on Thursday?
  • S17: just a couple more days will be helpful too
  • S22: I feel the same was. I feel like we need to talk about the empathy map at some point before it is due
  • S07: I usually like more time but the empathy map is very straight forward. I got it all done in 3 hours this morning
  • S22: way*
  • S10: We have talked about it in class
  • S02: To anyone who hasn't done the onboarding with Proctortrack, be warned: save everything ahead of time. It closed all of my open applications (including LibreOffice) without any warning and without saving anything.
  • S07: I even had fun recording myself talking about a movie (its part of the proctortrack quiz)
  • S23: lol true@ Michael
  • S14: thank Michael, that actually saved me because I was going to do it on the side as I did other things
  • S24: For me it didn’t detect the microphone at all. Even though nothing was wrong
  • S25: Might be helpful to just post the question for the rest of the forums now so you don't forget
  • S13: Good point by Michael, I lost some work data due to proctortrack lol
  • S24: I had to use a different device
  • S08: Would it be okay if I sent you my #20 by email? And rip Philip :(
  • S07: David, I did already. go ahead I say
  • S08: noted dude, thanks
  • S26: Was the attendance code posted? I may have missed it
  • S25: Proctortrack closed the word document I was doing the assignment on and I lost everything haha
  • S14: nope aden
  • S27: U are supposed to keep the proctor track on ???????
  • S27: lol
  • S20: I was doing mine in browser in Google docs, didn’t lose anything if anyone needs an alternative
  • S28: Me too Nicholas
  • S29: Same nicholas
  • S07: you guys are lucky, I had previous proffs who made me use proctortrack
  • S30: Yeah, force closed my OneNote but asked if I wanted to close discord. Priorities.
  • S26: I think the video posted on the website of the guy doing proctortrack onboarding is pretty accurate for reference while writing
  • S25: Didn't even think of doing it that way, Aden. Good idea
  • S31: Proctortrack was incredibly invasive in my laptop’s privacy. I was very uncomfortable providing it access to most things that most of my other apps don’t have access to
  • S32: attendance password??
  • S33: i guess you should know about the proctor track onboarding if u don't know than try for it and after you close write your experience. i think it is best way to go.
  • S20: No attendance yet
  • S07: I had a proctortrack session ask me to disconnect my second monitor... :|
  • S10: BEcause dual montiors wasnt allowed on it haha
  • S20: Same here, I can’t use my main monitor so I had to switch computers to do it
  • S34: Wow that sounds incredibly sus
  • S35: I have chem final proctored but there are tables and and other stuff that we are supposed to use during exams, idk how I woukd use them with prototrack
  • S07: Mandeep, if you are worried, take all the files out of your computer, use prostate exam and the factory settings the computer
  • S10: The host can enable proctor track to allow certain programs
  • S07: *then
  • S05: use a virtual box, no risk to any files on your machine
  • S10: Yug you cant use a VM it checks for tha
  • S20: Could be flagged and wanted as cheating though
  • DHH: Student password
  • S20: Do we only do the onboarding part or do we do the practice test as well?
  • S35: proctotrack should not have been invented
  • S07: both are the same test for the most part
  • S07: both will ask what is the capital of Saskatchewan and what is the weather like
  • S07: ...offhand but why is Greenland the biggest island? is it not Australia?
  • S10: australia is 4x larger?
  • S09: probably saw one of those wrong world map where Greenland is as big as africa
  • S09: found same hing in many other places too
  • S05: Australia is classified as a continent and hence it is not a contender for the biggest island
  • S09: that, does not make much sense
  • S02: Whether or not something is a continent has no bearing on whether it is an island
  • S34: island definition is literally != bigger than continent.
  • S09: mainland Australia is smaller than Australia+tasmania+new Zealand, makes it an island lol
  • S35: bros island is something that is surrounded by water on all sides and something that is not a continent
  • S02: hmmm, Wikipedia seems to agree with Shrey! well, today I learned
  • S20: “Australia is technically an island [...] but it is more commonly considered a continental landmass.” Greenland is the largest non Australia island
  • S02: (assuming Wikipedia is correct)
  • S11: Actually Shrey, island would have to require fixed mass (so not ice sheets, Antarctica). It also requires that it is not a continent (so something could be bigger than Australia, not a continent, and an island, theoretically.
  • S07: ....to the Geology faculty! Banananan!
  • S34: Agreed. It's an interesting jumble of logic and landmass.
  • S35: its simple and logical
  • S05: It also has to do with the fact that Australia sits on its own tectonic plate, whereas Greenland doesn't
  • S35: Australia is a continent that's why its not an island!!!!!!
  • S09: there are some weird stuff with geology. Caspian sea is ompletely surrounded by land, makes it a lake, worlds largest one at that, but everyone calls it a sea
  • S11: Whoa, boom! @Yug with the definition of a continent now :)
  • S08: Breakout room discussion: Is Australia an island?
  • S36: hhahahhahhahah
  • S10: Might have more participation rate for it
  • S14: lol
  • DHH: Question : What is an example of “other” you’d like to see?
  • S14: what do you mean by other sry I zoned out
  • S14: oh I see
  • S06: maybe we could have our
  • S37: a researcher
  • S14: a researcher sounds cool
  • S38: a researcher
  • S14: like a researcher talking about their role in a project
  • S32: software engineer
  • S35: guys poll is already done
  • S39: Honestly it will be great for us if we get a guest from computer profession because it would be a great opportunity to explore about jobs
  • S40: Basically I am good for all of them like I am neutral
  • S11: I voted “no”, but if we are having another guest I would like a really intriguing philosopher/deep-thinker. Somebody to provoke thought and challenge how we think
  • S41: Justin trudeau
  • S08: @Neha agreed, I'm always down for anything career related
  • S14: smith going big
  • S42: It will be great to have IT Professionals
  • S15: agreed with @Neha
  • S35: agreed with smith
  • S08: lol
  • S11: I’m not so interested in career/work stuff in this class. There are other places for that, and it doesn’t align with the scope of this course.
  • S08: That is a good point
  • S07: The guy from Regina and then Freakin NASA was awesome, perhaps someone from Boston Dynamics as well
  • S11: Right. Networking is what I was saying probably isn’t
  • S35: elon is from it right?
  • S35: we can have elon
  • S07: hey, using software to control a robot can come to mind!
  • S08: Heads up, project is also due In like 9 days
  • S38: It would not affect if someone has done EM he can submit and start project
  • S14: ^ April is here unfortunatly
  • S36: Admittedly I'm far less concerned about the Empathy Map than the final project as we already got an entire extra week to work on the EM. I'm swamped and a little more time to work on the project would take some of the pressure off for me.
  • S07: me too, our group better start with combining our coding and such
  • S10: My problem with the project is Dont we have to wait for the response for your proposal?
  • S35: I would like the project's deadline extended
  • S30: Empathy map took me like 40 minutes last night, pushing it back causes issue with the research project timing I feel
  • S23: and we also get our feedbacks for the proposal we submitted to know if we should carry on with what we had in mind
  • S11: Pushing back to Thursday (2 days)
  • S23: can*
  • S26: I would like some type of feedback from project proposal
  • S25: I'd rather have the project deadline pushed back and receive feedback on the proposal before it's due
  • S05: ^yeah that would be better
  • S42: Yet to get feedback from the project proposal
  • S35: what do we have for our final exam?
  • S08: I think the project due date is much more important to extend than the empathy map due date just because of its size. So if we choose one to extend, I'd really appreciate the project having an extension
  • S23: yea
  • S14: maybe talk to him in his office hours for feedback is my best guess if you want it early
  • S43: EM is fine. project is the matter.
  • S44: I think bonus marks should be awarded to students who finish the assignments on time if we are going to push back the deadline.
  • S11: 2 people getting ahead of themselves and submitting the Project Deliverable already. The real MVPs...
  • S42: Wow!
  • S07: interesting name Zoom User...
  • S07: is User german?
  • S10: ITs straight and to the point
  • S10: very accurate name
  • S36: Honestly bless you Daryl
  • S08: Thank you for doing that prof :)
  • S14: oh dang
  • S35: what would we have for final?
  • S45: Yeah, thanks for listening to our recommendations!
  • S11: Since my CS 476 is due tomorrow, pushing the empathy map to Thursday allows me to work an extra hour or whatever on 476 today (my Thursday is wide open).
  • S11: Not too picky either way though
  • S46: ^^
  • S20: A personal extension for that might be better in that case
  • S03: I agree with Phillip
  • S17: I agree with Philip, I also have CS 476 due tomorrow
  • S46: Yeh same
  • S20: Depends on how many it’ll effect though
  • S47: I have an assignment due tomorrow so I agree with Phillip as well
  • S07: If you guys find the time to do the EM, it is honestly the easiest assignment on the planet (the only hard part is accepting that horrid ProctorTrack on your computer)
  • S03: Thank you!
  • S15: Thank you :)
  • S46: Thank you so much
  • S48: thanks much!!
  • S11: ^ Shareef, I do expect that to be the case. Nice not to divert my train of thought from the 476 project though (worth 100% of the weighted grade in that class)
  • S11: Hahha :)
  • S14: ahah
  • S49: lol
  • S08: I KNEW IT
  • S46: Lol
  • S33: nice:)
  • S04: maybe
  • S14: I was like wait
  • S07: oh jeez, Phillip. I think you will find the EM as a nice break. you get to talk about your favourite movie for 5min
  • S50: lol
  • S35: he got me there
  • S14: you said what we meant by "other"
  • S35: elon musk
  • S03: yes Elon
  • S07: Next Topic: Is a banana a fruit or a Berry?
  • S14: he hit us with an early april fools\
  • S51: Yes
  • S52: Thanks Prof
  • S14: how is X Æ A-Xii doing elon?
  • S35: No I was serious about elon
  • S33: nice entrepreneur^^^
  • S53: @mukeshambani is this your real name?
  • S54: Imposter
  • S33: that's what^^
  • S55: Hey The Real Elon
  • S07: My name is X Æ A-Xii
  • S25: From Regina actually
  • S28: I think it was moose jaw
  • S29: can we get back to track ?
  • DHH: Breakout room: is it possible to act professionally without certification? If so, why is it important? Discuss.
  • S54: ^ yes please. Ready for the breakout topic
  • S54: Brilliant!
  • S35: yes
  • S36: Seems clear to me
  • DHH: https://cips.ca/ethics/
  • DHH: https://ethics.acm.org/integrity-project/
  • DHH: http://ethics.acm.org/integrity-project/ask-an-ethicist/
  • S08: I think it went very well
  • S36: much better, thank you!
  • S30: Much much better
  • S56: Definitely
  • S57: The best breakout room so far xDD
  • S03: yes much better
  • S05: Yeah, much better
  • S11: Better, but only 3 people discussed of 10
  • S08: More people was a good idea
  • S58: Yes
  • S10: I mean we had 3-4 people talking instead of 2
  • S36: or none lol
  • S02: it seemed to provoke much more discussion
  • S22: Yeah, it was better
  • S07: we discussed Austraila being an island for the last minute
  • S59: Yeah much better
  • S11: Better because we actually had a discussion (last time I was alone with 3 silent people)
  • S35: lmao much better, last time it was just 2 of us
  • S14: mine had only me and one other talking
  • S30: Better than 1 talk in a room of 5
  • S33: nice
  • S20: Better than nothing yeah
  • S05: Why should we have to pay every year for a certification skill, we acquired and very will have it for the rest of our lives? And is this ethical?
  • S20: Was some good discussion this time
  • S11: Yeah. 3 of 10 is better than 1 of 5 because there’s a discussion
  • S08: haha
  • S57: xD
  • S13: oh shoot, there goes my discussion
  • S08: I think it is possible to act professionally without certification. Tech is a very 'loose' field educationally, so I think there are multiple ways to achieve professionalism, including, but not limited to, certification, education, and work experience.
  • S35: I am not paying $200 just to label someone that I am ethically certified. My work defines me!
  • S41: It doesn’t defines the firm though
  • S08: Oh my mistake, I think I slightly misinterpreted the question
  • S36: Also if you have a membership with a group there are accountability processes that can ensure that you're representing that group accordingly
  • S05: I am fine with the membership if it comes with a number of different benefits, however, if it is solely for the purpose of keeping the certificate, then I wouldn't want to pay
  • S11: Not a compelling enough narrative for me. I don’t think I’ll choose to have a membership with CIPS. Their value-proposition isn’t worth jumping through the hoops to me, especially not any ongoing hoops, and not to mention ongoing fees.
  • S13: The certificate is good to have but realistically, I don't think it helps with getting a job
  • S07: I think if an employer wants to make their employees certified, they will have the cost
  • S11: I think joining a social group that codes and puts on community activities would be good. Like that group on campus that hosts hack-a-thons
  • S22: I believe it definitely helps with "getting" a job, but certain certifications might be better at preparing you for specific jobs like diplomas from polytech
  • S41: Microsoft certification is good
  • S10: I would say certifications of commonly used softwar is more important than cips. Seeing as cips gives it to all uni students in regina. This doesnt mean you know how to use the software that a company needs used
  • S30: I feel like certification are great for knowledge, like a "I know how to do this", they feel less impactful when its a certificate saying "I will act this way"
  • S13: I 100% agree with Keegan
  • S07: like a driver's licence. "I promise I can drive and drive safely"?
  • S11: As far as networking goes, however, I have been advantaged by my work terms and am not worrying about finding work / proving myself
  • S08: I think the point where CIPS will be valued highly is when it's treated like a professional practices college, if that makes sense. Im not sure if those are the right words
  • S10: Shareef a drivers license you take a test that states you know how to drive a vehicle. Notevery kind of vehicle however
  • S11: I am thankful that we don’t have a gatekeeping society. Lots of room in the world for bad programmers / I.T. people. Lots of room for good ones to stand out
  • S10: IT doesnt promise you will drive safely
  • S07: that's my point, it proves competence
  • S07: not promises
  • S08: Thank you for class today, I appreciate the extensions and clarifications on the assignments as well. Take care
  • S36: Thanks Daryl! Good discussion :)
  • S10: ohhh makes more sense
  • S11: Thank you for class :)
  • S45: Thanks!
  • S57: Thanks ^__^
  • S30: Take care!
  • S60: thank you
  • S32: thank you
  • S05: Thanks Daryl, Have a nice day!
  • S53: hi prof, I have a question?
  • DHH: Can you come to my office hour today?
  • S53: yes, thanks