Mtg 5/24: Tue-25-Jan-2022

Outline for Today



Zoom Audio Transcript

  • Good morning, good afternoon and good evening as. best to you. So I think we've got. Most people here today. So I checked. Are you our courses enrollment. And we have 15 students. So we have 13 have you. with us today. So hope you had a good weekend. And a good Monday. Now here we are, and my guess is some for some of you it's Wednesday already isn't it. Well, I should say. should change my greeting to not from happy Tuesday to happy. Well, no i'm it try and figure out something more inclusive. So let me share my screen with you. So I added a bit more detail. Let me know if you have any questions or concerns. So. here's our meetings. And there's the attendance. activity and we'll do that today, in a minute. So the class wiki. Which hasn't been a great success so far. So let's talk about that. and So, based on. enrollment today. I redid the group list. So i've. kept them almost. The same. and I think only vibe. Here, has been moved to group for. So we have 15 students so groups of 444 and three. Otherwise, I think. dress. right there and they were set out a region. let's see all right. Alright, so that's the group list and here's. The communication forum for that group. which you belong. And so we're meeting five today so i'm going to ask. And just go and. add this in. Okay, so that's the wiki. So that's one place.
  • Let me.
  • Go back to the main page here. So. To clarify participation, so in the syllabus i've indicated 10% for participation 25% for assignments. And exams of the 65% complete overall. So 15% for a midterm and final exam were 50%. So, in terms of participation so i've tried to make an explanation here, and let me know if this is clear where you'd like some more clarification. And marks of your final grade will be rewarded based on your participation of glass ways to participate include recording your attendance writing responses to meetings contributing during zoom zoom meetings to the class wiki and to forums and activities and your courses. So, speaking of forums so there's a participation forum. and So you can eat, I suggest you use that form to participate in class by reporting a bug in this course, and you are courses there's some incorrect outdated material, for example. You can use it to report a bug on my website for the class or just generally for our website. Then you can also suggest resources or links that contribute to clients. So. Some things you might. contribute on the wiki page as well. For the different meetings so. i'll leave that as an option as well. So we'll talk about. assignments in more detail on Thursday. But for exam so i'm thinking of March 1 good day for a midterm exam. Any thoughts about that that's. The first day after the winter reading drink. And, coincidentally it's also the day that. Students in China will be resuming face to face or in person. attendance in different classes. That doesn't apply to you our classes online has always been intended to be online. But. Dealing with the on the chron variant. We started this semester off the most even in person learning was done remotely. So we're starting to move towards return in February. march 1 is the date that everybody is expected to. resume was originally scheduled to be in person, less running on campus. Anyway, that's more information, you need to know about march 1 but. That seem seem all right. So when to write on the wiki. it's possible to do it now as we're. As we're going through things. If you're editing the wiki page now. It will be locked for other people to use it. So maybe. As we get experience with it, but i'd say maybe make some periodic save your work periodically so it's up to date and then. Perhaps. kind of editing mode if you're not. If you know that you're not. going to edit. well. And if you find that if you're in the group whose group one who's been asked to lead the editing for the wiki today. And if editing is available now great or, if not just make some notes and other and another application or word or some text editor that you like. And then put them in to the wiki when it's available for editing later on. So i'll leave that to you how to coordinate. So that makes sense we're making it more difficult than needs to be. Okay. Can we. Go back to our discussion from last day a little bit. So we looked at those two videos and we also. started with Chapter one in the textbook. And then Chapter one in the design encyclopedia. Any thoughts about. The importance of interface design. Okay, so I on no I didn't say. We need to present in class from March 1. I just. was talking about march 1 also being the day when some other classes will be referring to in person. Learning after a pause. For to deal with the AMI AMI Kron variant. But we were completely remotely. Were we've been set up for remote learning online, to begin with, so. there's no. that's not a concern for us as the switch to in person. I was just pointing out that that's the. that's the plan for other classes on campus. That were scheduled originally to be some form of in person. So it makes sense. Yes, that's right our Semester will stay online only. So from the material we've looked at so far. So Okay, I have to. You know. I need to. get a date scheduled for the US to do that, so I expect to be after April 11 some point, and I hope. I expect bye our next meeting, I can give you the date for that okay. And maybe. Because we're all online doesn't. doesn't require a lot of scheduling. But i'll just double check into i'll just check. With the administrative staff to make sure that i'm telling you the right thing and we'll deal with her on Thursday OK. OK. Okay well we'll get that sorted out. And we'll just we'll discuss the remaining issues on Thursday okay. All right. David Kelly, in his. presentation about. Design thinking, I guess, to. Put a. Design thinking and creative confidence. So the question i'd like to ask you, and we can have a bit of a breakout for this. Is design. Design for everyone, or. For professionals. Professional designers. So i'm going to type that into the chat so we have a record of our. Actually i'll do it on the whiteboard. Let me change that. squeezing okay. That makes sense. Okay, so. i'm going to suggest that we. Have a breakout session for 10 minutes to discuss and then. We can come back and. Can rate on here, if you want. Make that anonymous going to do annotations. Okay, very good so i'm gonna let you choose your breakout rooms and. Some based on your classwork groups. And via above i've met miss met pardon me i've. Put you into group for. So pick the breakout room that goes with your group number okay. Now do 10 minutes and then we'll go back to discuss. So when I say design to I mean the process or the design product and time with the process really. Okay everyone's in the in the main room still are you able to find your. grips okay.
  • So, actually, my group is, for me, you added up to second that's why I had to leave it.
  • i'm facing the same issue on the my side. Sorry, what is what's the issue you're facing. Actually, you don't need the diamond group fall but. There was an invitation and I just clicked and I was there in good too, so I left that.
  • hmm so I. I thought Oh, did I okay.
  • yeah.
  • I thought I had said to cook. yeah I might have clicked too quickly, and I miss changing. rooms. So if you can rejoin our. Okay, let me. Just redo it again. Okay, so i'm gonna try that again sorry about that. Okay, so i'm gonna lie i've set it to allow you to choose your own room so choose a room based on your. classwork group numbers, please. So they should be groups 123 should have four people in them. And group for should have three people. Okay, I think we have everybody here now in zoom okay. If I if you have questions, let me know. Okay, so how is that. Jeff some good discussions in your Greg overs. Okay that's great to see. well. So. I think it's not. Complete. it's not objective but it's not. it's not just an opinion. But I think. put my foot in my mouth. So I think there are reasons to say. That designers design is for professional designers. That it's important to. For a successful project that we engage people who are. Who are well versed in. In that body of knowledge related to design. But at the same time. I don't think it helps to defer to them always and to not seek out input from. People who will be using the products. Of the design process. haha. Great I didn't share the password let me do that. Okay, so got that sorted out. So there's two sides, I guess, so if we think about the benefit of design thinking. and David Kelly was talking about, with his. focus on building creative confidence and. So so on. So that that's a much more. democratic process or democratizing are making. Some design. ideas. and Putting them in the hands of everyday people who might be familiar with using. Using things, but not necessarily designing them. So that's the one side, and then the other is. Talking about. The rule of designers in. In understanding. The questions to ask. The way to put together ideas and. No way to use different techniques. So in that way. Maybe there's too much for. People to. So. Good. So maybe it's a question of. Taking. Well let's say the backup to say that maybe people who do an undergraduate or a master's degree in design related field. They put a lot of effort in more effort than. People. The average person who uses products and has some ideas about them would want to put in. So it's not. The quote the question was not aimed at. Saying should we really need to have designers. I think we do need to have them but. there's a contribution that people can make, and I think they can make stronger contributions if they have. some idea of the process that it's undertaken to realize designs to go through that process. Now i've told you my perspective, i'm.
  • Okay.
  • So a couple of good comments in the chat but. I don't need you to not let me monopolize the audio you can turn your MIC on, and if you want to talk about some new ideas you had in the breakout session with your group. And to make it. A little easier. If you raise your hand and I can call on you. Okay i'm not seeing a lot of hands going up so let's not it stuck on that and, but anyone I heard saw lots of yeses regarding the breakout room discussion so anything in the breakout room discussions that you'd like to share in the chat or on. or via audio. Yes, damn indeed.
  • Sir.
  • hi.
  • So we actually discuss in a breakout breakout room that to like design is like not for like everyone, because if, like everyone is going to understand the designs, it is actually we see a. Job perspective, like like the jobs market will crash for the professional designers as everyone is going to understand like design Center. So it actually looks like job market if we look at in that perspective.
  • yeah that's true, I think. it's maybe a matter of. Respect for design if people think that Oh, I can do this I don't need to hire somebody. don't need to have a designer on the staff on staff working on these issues. They think their way of without hiring because people say that it's not. it's anyone can do it. So, in the same way. Well, let me talk a little bit about the code Oregon the hour of code, if anyone has anyone heard about those initiatives in the past few years. Okay, so the idea is. There are. This this the motivation for the hour of code and and is as a nonprofit organization. they're they're trying to introduce, as many people as possible to the idea of computer coding. So, on the one hand. And the reason why they're introducing. The skills to everybody, or as widely as possible. Is because there's a shortage of. Train programmers and designers. People who can. realize these ideas these innovative ideas in code. To run on computers and so on. So the more cynical view of this, these initiatives is that they're trying to put downward pressure on. salaries. Because there are you know. The alternative is these they say it's not really short of trained personnel. it's that. very proficient programmers and designers. Are commanding a lot of money, and if we. If we can illustrate that. You know, anyone can do this. Then. Then the professionals in the field will have a harder time being compensated and. so on and so forth, so it's a similar thing i'm not saying that that's necessarily. The case I mean there's certain. there's certain data points that might. be the case, I suppose. there's another fellow Douglas rushkoff. Has anyone heard of him. So he I think he. He wrote a book, which I believe is title entitled program or be programmed. So it's the idea, the analogy he uses. Is. So. say you don't need to program because not everyone knows how to fix their own car. So that. might be. A typical analogy, so if you're not writing code it's like you're not getting under the hood and fixing your vehicle or your other form of transportation you're not. you're not able to do what a mechanic does in servicing your vehicle. Your. scooter your bicycle your car whatever it is. So that's a common comparison. But the point he made was it's not. it's not a about whether you can fix your car or not so, whether you can drive the car or not. So if you're. If. You never get a license to drive. A car let's say or a motorbike or whatever else. That might require license. Or at least experience, so you don't crash it. If you never get that experience of that training or that certification. Then you always only be a passenger in the vehicle so somebody else is going to steer the course and. Take you where he or she. wants to go. So it's a little bit. So there's the idea of having some basic literacy. About design so not necessarily so much that. Were competing. So that the so that the lay people, so to speak. are competing or think that they can do the job designers. But they have enough. Understanding, so it helps them. frame their questions. To participate in the discussion. And maybe to have more respect for. People who are doing the design, but I love go ahead, please.
  • yeah. Actually, as you have mentioned here like what happens if more people. Like who are not designers become front of them family have a design, so I can see the many people, a lot of Members. Like my known numbers. Already design their own website, by using G sweet or any kind of that site builders and they don't have any kind of idea about ux ui design Okay, so in my previous organization, I was working. To create some design ui design and the software was totally based on NBC a form, so if, if I can say, if you have a. Get the time to watch spider man, far from home, so there was a scene in an aeroplane and spider man like Tom Holland was like creating his own suit by using some automated tools and. If if i'm not talking about designing any website design and talking about designing anything that or an object, so any Member who have like basic knowledge about. How to perform any operation like on a daily basis, we used to like use our cell phone and PC, so it is easy for them to create any kind of design by their own choice because they are multiple tools which are available on Internet by using them. Any simple person and common man can design anything as I can, like. He will not know he or she will not know like how the back end processes going on, but he can easily manage and like create. Any own design by his or her will. It is not like like you have already said that he's not competing competing in the market of like is not competing with any kind of software developers or soft a genius like who already designed or designing the. Any website or application and but he can. Simply achieved his own design so. I think design is for everyone that. Anyone can design anything if he has or she has an basic knowledge about that. Thank you.
  • Oh you're welcome. So. So I suppose it's a question of whether people are. Whether people who are not as professional designers and maybe have an aptitude towards these things, maybe they're. They have other skills which are complimentary to the design and. They may. figure out issues in. layouts of. screens are the right do do things quite well, maybe better than some people who are. Have a more complete education in the in all the areas. So. And i'm thinking that just. Having some credentials isn't necessarily the. The answer, either because. You know I. I I sent a Christmas package my wife and I sent her or Santa package he's in he's living in lot via. And so I went to Canada post and they took my money they gave me a tracking number. And then they wouldn't tell me. For weeks, they wouldn't tell me. anything except stay tuned for updates and, finally, I went to see somebody and they said Oh, this is a fedex number, I mean sometimes they use fedex. And just going to see whether. So the Canada post APP still says my that's my son's package that we send them for Christmas. Is out for delivery. So. Now, who designed the Canada post out are they. What set of credentials do they have to get the opposite get into the position of developing. That APP that. has so many. usability issues. it's. yeah I don't know where to begin with. talking to anyone about it. You know, so if we have we have professional designers who are. Have the credentials, but maybe don't have. The aptitude for it. I might say it plainly, anyway. So for for me with my website. I figure that. I should be able to design. Something that is not just. providing basic functions, but can actually. do some things well. And i'm not sure what i'm showing you now. They can start on the whiteboard. So let me switch back to the screen. Does that make sense, am I am I responding to your comments, I thought I was starting to anyway. hi Bob I mean i'm talking I started responding to fly Bob but I maybe i'm a little bit off track. And Dan had a comment in the chat Why do I think they conduct initiatives like hour of code is it. So that everyone learns how to code or to to understand the effort that goes into software development. So I. Think, for the most part it's more about understanding that the. So Steve Jobs has this quote about. You know, once you realize that everything that's been built in the world has been. built by somebody who's maybe not any smarter than any of us. You know, we can change it, and we can improve it. So I think. that's the purpose of. that's the real benefit of those kinds of initiatives is to say that. is to give. Students or people. Who don't have prior experience with coding writing code or designing applications, they have. A sense that they can move. They can there's a process by which they can. articulate. Design ideas and concepts. And the. In the process of how to. initiate change for themselves so it's not just a matter of don't even bother you can't understand any of this. I can understand a little bit of a little bit of it, and maybe that little bit can help. The designers and the programmers and the professionals. To make a stronger case. To make better design choices. anyway. i'm open to any anyone else, having comments about that. So the thing that i've been doing with my. website so I upgraded to bootstrap five. which causes a few problems along the way, but. I think I got things in hand pretty well. So what I. here's what i'm going to illustrate was my challenge or last few days. is how to have a scrolling. div. So there's something in in bootstrap called scroll spy. So, as I go through. The scroll to the contents in a Dev. Then. keeps track of where I am. So. The question has been how to know what size of. A big to make the dim. So i'm doing some calculation and javascript. In this window that you see here. And it's. Reasonable it's not completely accurate, because things don't fit just the way that I want them to. I can get it very refreshing. way. So I welcome your comments about. My website design and some issues there. That come up. Okay, so adding icons to the website will make it better. What kind of icons would you like to see. Anyway, i'll leave that as a question, we can. can discuss offline or on your courses or. will take it up again, on Thursday, because we're out of time for today. Anyway, so i'm going to post, the link here. Something i'd like you to look at. And then also look at Chapter two, and in the interaction design book as well, in preparation for next phase discussion okay. And i'll put that link on our meeting page as well. Anyway, Okay, thank you very much for today. And we'll talk to you. On Thursday, take care, everyone have a good day stay well. And I have office hours stirring in 15 minutes for not for an hour, you have any questions that come up okay take care bye.

Zoom Chat Transcript

  • Good Morning Sir
  • Good afternoon sir
  • hi sir good morning
  • Good Afternoon Sir
  • yes
  • Yes
  • when to write on wiki?
  • understand
  • I am having a bad internet connectivity today. Did you say we need to be present for in-person class from March 01?
  • Our semester will stay online only
  • yes
  • Can you please tell us if it’s not too early, when you plan to give our final exam?
  • I mean the date
  • Thank you
  • Planning to get the air ticket after the exam
  • Otherwise, I’m worried that it might overlap with the exam date
  • Thank you very much
  • In my opinion it’s for everyone, because before professionals became professionals they started from beneath which is being among everyone.
  • When you say design, do you mean the process or the outcome as in designed product?
  • yes
  • in my idea it is for every one
  • okay
  • okay
  • by design do u refer creating or understanding?
  • yes
  • yes
  • Yes
  • yes
  • yes
  • yes
  • yes
  • yes
  • Sir, is there’s a correct answer to the first question? Or is it subjective?
  • he didn't share pw today
  • Student password
  • Because if it’s up to me then I’d say, design is not for everyone but everyone should be welcome to give it a try. I was looking at The Design of Everyday Things books, and I realised there are certian elements need to be present in a good design.
  • we do not know what each and every individual person think or feels. a design for a person might look different to another. however design can be improved by engagement of multiple users and their thoughts.
  • yes
  • Drag and drop element for coding
  • no
  • No
  • no sir
  • no
  • no sir
  • why do you think they conduct these initiatives? 1. so that everyone learns how to code 2. to understand the effort that goes into software development
  • yes sir
  • Okay
  • Adding icons to the website make it more better.
  • okk sir
  • thank you
  • Thank you
  • thank sir
  • thank you sir
  • thanks
  • Thank you.
  • thank you
  • thank you
  • thanks sir


What important concept or perspective did you encounter today?

  • the urcourse site become awesome now its now more readable and better to understand. additional, the breakout room went good and did really good discussion about todays topic.
  • Designing is for everyone but not everyone can become a professional designer. I also learnt that if more people who aren't designers become fluent or familiar with design , it could mean a few things . 1 They can work towards becoming professional 2. There will be little need for professional designers.
  • hi sir how are you .it is very good section that I learned a lot. I learned a bout design for every one.Design is used for web site any application, my idea all people need to design for home,car.
  • The topic that was of discussion in break out was interesting of that is design for everyone or for professionals, I believe design can be tried out by anyone but when it comes to professional works it is best to keep it to their hands as it is there field of work.
  • I learned about design should be better for professional designers instead of anyone.
  • Design should be professionally done but ideas should be welcomed from everyone.
  • I have learned about the distribution of weightage of exams, assign, participation, etc. and also we had a good discussion on design concepts.

Was there anything today that was difficult to understand?

  • Design can be done by everyone, but professionals can shape it perfectly according to the needs of the client.

Was there anything today about which you would like to know more?

  • Anyone can indeed design, but it is a difficult question to answer whether they should or not. In today's class, I saw some compelling arguments for both sides. Having more people design things will undoubtedly increase the competition and benefit the consumers. However, it also makes some professional designers feel threatened for their jobs by these newcomers. On the other hand, products designed by these newbies may not have all the traits of good design principles. I would like to know more about this.
  • the design principles and what is the importance of design in any designer life. Today we discussed about this topic in the breakout room and we share our own views on this.
  • the thing about which I would most like to know more will be how can we make a close to perfect design as every one has a different taste or thoughts.
  • The discussion topic for today was quite interesting and everyone was having different view on that. It was also a good discussion within breakout room but we were not able to achieve any conclusion because of some time limitations.


Link to the UR Courses wiki page for this meeting